25 years of Sorted: Tom Hartmann reflects on tech, tools and trust

1. You’ve been part of Sorted since 2012; that’s 14 of its 25 years! What does the anniversary mean personally for you? 

It’s great to celebrate these 25 years. It’s gratifying to see it still working for people. I can walk down a busy street and know that Sorted has something to offer for most people as they make money decisions.  

The key thing about Sorted is that a long line of incredibly talented people have poured their skill, time and creativity into developing it for everyone. I’ve been so fortunate to be on the team as it unfolded and contribute my part.  

2. Why has Sorted earned so much trust with New Zealanders over 25 years? 

We have the great advantage of not selling a product or service. What we offer is impartial, unconflicted and in people’s best interests for the long term, and we have treasured that trust all these years. But there is always more we can do, and do better, to keep earning that trust. 

I’m grateful to financial service providers as well for their support during this time. We’ve been an independent source of truth for the industry as well. 

3. What was Sorted trying to help New Zealanders with then, and how has that changed over time? 

One memorable campaign was called the ‘Super-save-ulator’, which ran on the sides of city buses with the Sorted mouse as a jockey riding a pig. Even in those days the focus was on helping people get ahead, not just get by. 

My first year we were working on Sorted’s investor profiler in order to help people get strategic about their investing and an idea of what results to expect. Financial expert Martin Hawes and our actuaries MJW supported us so much, and that tool is still so relevant, even more so after the DIY platforms came in and gamified investing. What’s all that money for? How soon will you need it back? How much risk are you taking with it?  

So in many ways the principles underlying Sorted haven’t shifted at all. The focus is more on growth and resilience than ever. And the categories we cover: planning/budgeting, saving/investing, KiwiSaver, tackling debt, protecting wealth, retirement, home buying… all have had staying power. 

4. What’s one thing about Sorted’s early days that people might be surprised to hear now? 

People have always appreciated our booklets; I think it’s something about having something tangible in hand. Back in the day we would print tens of thousands and have them on display racks in supermarkets, libraries, even doctors’ waiting rooms. And prior to social media, we had ‘Think, Shrink & Grow’ television commercials running regularly featuring the Sorted mouse.  

5. What did you think of Sorted when you first used it? What did you think of the mouse? 

Having worked in the mortgage industry in the U.S. I had seen firsthand how mortgages are structured and priced (primarily in favour of the lender, which is typical). I was really impressed with the ease and the spirit of Sorted’s mortgage calculator, that borrowers can essentially restructure these deals in their favour by pulling the right levers. It’s still our most popular tool.  

An enormous amount of work and creativity went into that mouse. My favourite of all time is the bubble-wrapped version, which got people thinking about insurance. There’s no point building up wealth only to have it wiped out when something happens. 

6. How has the way people think and talk about money changed over the years? 

The next generations coming up have far fewer hangups about money and are generally more comfortable talking about it. We think that’s a really good thing, and we aim to stay part of that conversation going forward for people. The only way to do that successfully is to keep bringing value. 

7. What do you think has stayed constant about Sorted even as the tools, technology and channels have changed? 

After doing this for a while it occurred to me, we were essentially targeting two things for people: to have more money for their future (growth), and to have more money at the ready today just in case (resilience).  

And since people run risks and their needs tend to go up over time, steadily until you eventually step back from paid work and need money to live on, we really need that long-term growth and resilience along the way. So they run in tandem. 

These days we’ve unlocked some of the potential of open banking and transactional data, and have started leveraging AI, but the focus remains. Our social channels like live_sorted on Instagram and sorted.org.nz on Facebook have continually proven great for snackable tips and tool demos, right where more of our audience is.  

8. Is there a particular Sorted tool, campaign or moment you’re particularly proud of? 

I’ve been lucky to be a part of a handful. Smart Investor brought transparency and context to all investment funds in New Zealand, and was a great partnership project to run with other government agencies.  

It was so cool to work with finance journalist Mary Holm on the KiwiSaver fund finder, AUT’s Dr. Ayesha Scott on our money personality quiz, and super-smart actuary Ian Perera on last year’s retirement navigator. Projects are amazing when you have the right people in the room! 

Seeing 10 years of Money Week and now a few Money Months has been awesome too. It’s great to create platforms that stakeholders can get so much out of for those they serve. 

9. What’s been the biggest change with the Sorted website over the years? 

The most significant upgrades I’ve seen have come in the tool space, the fund comparison platforms, and now our first app, Sorted buffer builder™, which makes it easy and automatic to start building some savings to cover those unexpected expenses that crop up. The more data becomes available, the more we can serve up meaningful experiences online. I think this is still the best use of a consumer brand by a government agency to resonate with the public. 

10. How have technological advancements and AI impacted Sorted? 

AI is giving us many more options as we develop tools for people to make informed money choices. Buffer builder, for example, was essentially built with AI and may not have been even feasible had AI not advanced so quickly. It’s been brilliant, like magic even. 

11. What do you love most about your role? 

I’m someone who works to learn, and I’m fascinated on how things work. This helps in my role as ‘chief explainer’ around here. That said, as much as I’ve learned, I’ve also come to appreciate how much more there is out there. Luckily we have partners and teammates who have the answers and I can always phone a friend. It’s certainly a collective effort, and I love the collabs. 

12. What’s been the most rewarding part of helping New Zealanders build their money confidence? 

Seeing anxieties around money ease. Sorted is a feeling, and essentially we believe that there are always levers people can pull to get better results. Tiny tweaks, outsized gains for everyone, no matter where they’re starting from. That’s where it’s at! 

13. Looking back, what’s one piece of money advice that has stood the test of time? 

When I arrived I was big on ‘paying yourself first’ as a saving technique, and after all this time I think perhaps it’s the most fundamental thing we promote. When you think about it, it’s why many things like KiwiSaver and the entire tax system even work, and there’s no reason we can’t make it work for us, too. 

14. Where do you see Sorted heading in the next 25 years? 

My feeling is that there is so much more we could do to support people to make their best money decisions and have more money for tomorrow and today. Product design, creating more things that nudge positive outcomes for people, is fertile territory, it seems to me. 

We’re making inroads at measuring positive and financial impact in this space, so I expect us to use technology every way we can to maximise that impact for our people. It’s the whole point.